Episode 8
Divorce Realities: Preparing for the Unexpected
Divorce and separation are complex processes that demand careful navigation and preparation. The salient point of our discussion revolves around the necessity of securing competent legal counsel at the onset of contemplating a divorce or separation. We emphasize that engaging with multiple lawyers to ascertain their strategies and compatibility is paramount, as this step can substantially influence the outcome of one's case. Furthermore, we delve into the emotional toll that such transitions impose, acknowledging the societal pressures and personal shame that often accompany the dissolution of relationships. Throughout the episode, we stress the importance of maintaining civility, particularly when children are involved, and the need to prioritize one's own well-being in the face of significant life changes. The dialogue navigates the complex terrain of relationship dissolution, offering listeners a wealth of insights into the legal, emotional, and practical considerations that accompany divorce and separation. The speakers emphasize the critical importance of engaging knowledgeable legal counsel early in the process. They advocate for individuals to conduct thorough research and interviews with multiple attorneys to ensure they receive competent representation. This preparatory step is presented as essential for understanding one’s rights and potential outcomes, thereby enabling individuals to make informed decisions as they navigate the often convoluted landscape of family law. In addition to legal considerations, the speakers delve into the profound emotional impact of divorce, acknowledging that the dissolution of a relationship can evoke feelings of shame, inadequacy, and loneliness. They encourage listeners to challenge societal stigmas surrounding divorce and to be open about their struggles, reinforcing the idea that seeking support is not a sign of weakness but a necessary step towards healing. This candid exploration of emotional vulnerability serves to destigmatize the experience of divorce, fostering a greater sense of community among those who may feel isolated in their struggles. In conclusion, this episode serves as both a pragmatic guide and an empathetic exploration of the divorce process. It underscores the need for thorough preparation and emotional resilience, urging listeners to take proactive steps in securing their legal rights while also fostering supportive relationships. By blending practical advice with heartfelt discussion, the speakers aim to equip their audience with the tools necessary to navigate the complexities of divorce with confidence and grace.
Takeaways:
- In the realm of divorce, seeking legal counsel promptly can significantly mitigate financial burdens.
- When contemplating divorce, it is prudent to assess the fairness of any proposed settlements.
- Communication remains paramount; open dialogue may ease the emotional complexities of separation.
- Emotional support from friends and family is essential during the tumultuous experience of divorce.
- Understanding one's financial situation before entering a marriage is critical to avoiding future complications.
- Indecision regarding separation can lead to prolonged emotional distress; decisive actions are necessary.
Transcript
And he said, save yourself a lot of money in legal.
Speaker A:Take the deal.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:When you become the adversary and you go down that road because you're so angry, you don't accept this deal.
Speaker A:But if the deal's a good one, a good lawyer will tell you to take it.
Speaker B:If it's the man cheating and he's already got a girlfriend and everything, a lot of times they don't come with a good deal.
Speaker A:The one thing I said, if you're going to fight, fight dirty, you got to make it hurt.
Speaker B:The moment the divorce finalized, he bought a big 15 million pound house.
Speaker B:Also, when you're going through divorce, don't put the drama on the stand.
Speaker B:If you're calling him a bastard, he's calling you a this and a that.
Speaker B:That doesn't work in front of judges.
Speaker A:From when you legally file for separation.
Speaker A:And even if you're not sure whether you're going to get back to each other or not, you don't know.
Speaker A:You never know.
Speaker A:File it.
Speaker A:Just file it.
Speaker B:You were the perfect couple.
Speaker B:You were the one that everybody admired.
Speaker B:And all of a sudden you're going through this divorce and your friends are like, how is he?
Speaker B:And you're like, oh, he's fine.
Speaker B:And you know, there's stuff.
Speaker A:Here's the big thing in life.
Speaker A:It's okay to say, I'm not okay, I'm not doing well.
Speaker A:Where are my friends?
Speaker A:Please be a good friend to me.
Speaker A:Now is when I need you.
Speaker A:That's okay to do and say to your family or to your friends, there's no shame in that.
Speaker A:Doing nothing is a decision.
Speaker A:Indecision is a decision, and it's not a good one.
Speaker A:Hello, thank you for joining us.
Speaker A:It's Madeline and Amanda.
Speaker A:And today we're going to talk about the subject about splitting up, breaking up, even if you're cohabitating or divorce, and kind of just the beginning steps of how you prepare and how you're going to navigate it when you make this decision or don't make this decision to do it, because that also is a decision.
Speaker B:So welcome to this episode of off the Record.
Speaker B:With society going the way it is today and relationships going to shit, as I would say, even though there's some really good relationships, a subject most people try to avoid is divorce.
Speaker A:I think it's today would be that certainly divorce is a big part of it, but probably separating, breaking up, these sorts of things.
Speaker A:Yes, the whole topic, rather than specifically divorce.
Speaker A:I've never been divorced, but.
Speaker A:And as we see a lot breaking up can Be quite complicated, especially there's a child involved.
Speaker A:I have several friends who, you know, there's new dynamics, family dynamics, and then sort of how to go about it.
Speaker A:And certainly I've spoken to a lot of other mothers at the school and I remember one coming up to me and telling me she wanted to get a divorce, but she didn't know where the money was, what she was going to do, how would she start?
Speaker A:And I don't even know why she came to me, but I told her that first you gotta find a good lawyer.
Speaker A:Step one, if you're even considering about it, you need to sort of prepare.
Speaker A:And then they say, how do you do that?
Speaker A:And she was very concerned.
Speaker A:She says, I don't even know he pays all the bills.
Speaker A:I don't know where the money is, I don't know what accounts.
Speaker A:And I said, well, there's always a trail.
Speaker A:And said, who pays the school bill?
Speaker A:Where's that money?
Speaker A:Where's the electricity bill?
Speaker A:Where's that being paid?
Speaker A:You can find out.
Speaker A:You can call them and find out what account was coming from.
Speaker A:So I think that if you feel first that that might be something you want to explore, the one thing would be to get a very good lawyer and they will help you with it.
Speaker A:Now, how do you do that?
Speaker A:We can start with that.
Speaker A:Well, you start interviewing.
Speaker A:You start interviewing.
Speaker A:Get a name.
Speaker A:Google, we've got Deep Seek, we've got AI.
Speaker A:You can kind of put all the details in and they'll come up.
Speaker A:Let's say you want the five names.
Speaker A:Now, once you interview with each of those lawyers, then he can no longer use them.
Speaker A:The other party can't use them because you've given them confidential information, which is a huge advantage.
Speaker A:So you've taken out the top five lawyers that other person can use.
Speaker A:And then how do you choose between the five that you've interviewed?
Speaker A:For me, when I had to use a family lawyer, I met with at the time, the five best in London, and I sat with each one, I explained what was going on.
Speaker A:And I noticed a few things.
Speaker A:There's some lawyers who are all about the money.
Speaker A:You know, the fee's this, you know, it's this per an hour, you know that they were more concerned with the money.
Speaker A:And here's our deposit, and here's that.
Speaker A:Stay away from that lawyer at all costs because they're all about the money.
Speaker A:The one lawyer.
Speaker A:And she ended up, at the time, she wasn't very expensive.
Speaker A:And then she became stratospherically expensive.
Speaker A:Later I said, what's your strategy?
Speaker A:Here's the situation.
Speaker A:What's your strategy?
Speaker A:In the end, I asked each of them question, and this is what you should do if you really want to.
Speaker A:And she outlined her strategy, and hers made sense.
Speaker A:And that's the thing.
Speaker A:And you get a lawyer.
Speaker A:And I have another friend, she went to get a lawyer, and she didn't want the pit bull.
Speaker A:She wanted someone's going to hold her hand.
Speaker A:I didn't agree with that.
Speaker A:I think I said, I think you just need someone who's a really good strategist.
Speaker A:You really need someone who's a good strategist.
Speaker A:But every case is different.
Speaker A:And she said, I need Madeline.
Speaker A:What I need is I need a lawyer who's gonna make me feel.
Speaker A:Who's gonna walk me through the process, and it's not gonna be so painful.
Speaker A:And that's what she needed, and that's what she didn't.
Speaker A:And I assume she ended up.
Speaker A:And she was happy.
Speaker A:I mean, from everything I can hear.
Speaker A:So you obviously go with your gut instinct, but you have to realize you're gonna need a lawyer.
Speaker A:Number one.
Speaker A:You're not gonna do this yourselves.
Speaker A:You're not gonna have people who've tried.
Speaker A:I have friends who've tried to do just the negotiations, but the husband was much tougher than her.
Speaker A:And then he sort of bullied her into what he wanted.
Speaker A:So I don't know if you disagree, but one, you start with a lawyer, and you may decide not to split up.
Speaker A:That's also okay.
Speaker A:But at least you know your rights and you know where you are.
Speaker A:And this applies whether you're in the States or you're in the UK or wherever you are, everyone's going to tell you, you need to get a good lawyer.
Speaker A:And with all the chatgpt or deep seq or whatever you want to use, if you don't have friends who you can ask, interview the lawyer.
Speaker A:It'll make sense to you.
Speaker A:And again, the lawyers that are always talking about money, money, money, money, you're gonna pay this.
Speaker A:Let me give you the invoice.
Speaker A:Don't go to that lawyer.
Speaker A:The first interview's free and should be, and you should ask them when you go through.
Speaker A:This is very.
Speaker A:This is how to save yourself a lot of money.
Speaker A:You're gonna narrow it down to five top lawyers that you think are gonna fit what you need, and then you interview them.
Speaker A:And that first interview should be free so you can choose.
Speaker B:So you see, when I think of divorce and breakup, one of the things I think about is I think you should get yourself as much information as possible even before you go into any relationship.
Speaker B:I mean, not for that relationship in particular.
Speaker B:You should just know.
Speaker B:I'm not saying you should study divorce or know what divorce is, but one thing I've read a lot about is that a lot of women, and sometimes men, when it comes to divorce, have no clue.
Speaker B:Because when you go into a marriage, you're not thinking you're going to get divorced.
Speaker B:When you go into a relationship, you're not thinking you're going to get breakup you.
Speaker B:So they have no clue.
Speaker B:And I read a very interesting article about this woman who was getting a divorce and then she realized all of a sudden that even.
Speaker B:Which she didn't think of in the beginning, that even her living situation was going to be at risk.
Speaker B:Because all of a sudden she realized, where am I going to live?
Speaker B:Because she did get a lawyer.
Speaker B:And the lawyer said, well, he's already sold the apartment whilst you were living there and it's going to get repossessed.
Speaker B:And she thought, oh, how am I going to live?
Speaker B:So this might sound very convoluted and I just don't want to advise women or men is when you're getting to a relationship, you should kind of navigate that relationship very carefully and do some research, even when you're in it.
Speaker B:Because I find, especially with women, a lot of them wait till it's too late.
Speaker B:Like Maddie was just saying, this woman going through divorce, she doesn't even know where the bills are paid.
Speaker B:She doesn't know where this is.
Speaker B:She doesn't know what that is.
Speaker B:I would have that five years earlier, even if I'm not going through divorce, Because I think if I'm married to someone and we are supposed to be joined in holy matrimony, we're supposed to share everything.
Speaker B:So it's as much my right to know what account he has as it's his right to know how I manage my money.
Speaker B:If we're in a marriage, that is, if you're in a relationship, it's a totally different thing.
Speaker B:But I think a lot of time you have to be armed with information and you might find the best lawyer.
Speaker B:But if you can't afford that lawyer.
Speaker B:I have friends who have been through divorces where the court ordered the husband to pay and he didn't pay and the lawyer dropped them.
Speaker B:So maybe I should advise you to also have a little nest egg aside if you know you're going to be going through divorce soon.
Speaker A:I think that's really unfortunate that that happened.
Speaker A:It depends on Whether the husband or the other party.
Speaker A:I should say it because I don't really think it should be male or female can pay or not.
Speaker B:I mean, he could pay and the judge ordered it and he refused.
Speaker B:Lot of things.
Speaker B:It's like when we talk of people.
Speaker B:I don't even want to name that guy from America, the president.
Speaker B:People.
Speaker B:There are people in life that delay used all these tactics.
Speaker B:He didn't pay.
Speaker B:He didn't pay their bills.
Speaker B:I mean, he was worth at least 60 to 70 times more than she's worth.
Speaker B:He drained all the money out of the house.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:He made sure the house had zero left.
Speaker B:He falsified his accounts.
Speaker B:She couldn't afford a forensic accountant.
Speaker B:He did so many things.
Speaker A:Here's what I.
Speaker B:With his lawyers.
Speaker A:So to get back to what you're saying, usually you do the forensic accountant before.
Speaker B:That's exactly what I said.
Speaker A:You do it before.
Speaker A:So my advice to the woman is that the forensic accountant can find.
Speaker A:They can find.
Speaker B:Yeah, but she couldn't afford a forensic accountant.
Speaker B:They've already.
Speaker B:You see the biggest mistake she made for some.
Speaker A:You can sell a watch, you can sell your car.
Speaker B:She did that.
Speaker B:She sold her Kellys.
Speaker B:She did everything she couldn't afford.
Speaker B:Listen, this guy had so much.
Speaker B:It was a lot.
Speaker B:He had moved things all over the world.
Speaker B:You had to go.
Speaker B:Now, the thing I would have advised her to do, which she made, the biggest mistake is, I mean, we're not divorced attorneys, so please don't take any of this as legal advice.
Speaker B:But the biggest mistake she made was she moved out of the marital home.
Speaker B:So the moment she did that because she was pissed off because he was.
Speaker A:Cheating, maybe she was unsafe, she felt.
Speaker B:Unsafe, she was safe, but she was cheating and she just moved out.
Speaker B:And when she moved out, you see, if she hadn't moved out, they would have put a court order on that.
Speaker B:So he wouldn't have even been able to take money out of the house and everything.
Speaker B:But she'd moved out and all these things.
Speaker B:And so Maddie's right, in a way, you do need the first thing you need if anything.
Speaker B:And even if you can't have a.
Speaker B:Find a lawyer, we have AI.
Speaker B:Just do your research and find what your rights are, what you can legally do or can't before even you get to the lawyer.
Speaker B:Because I think lack of information.
Speaker A:I want to bring up a really important point that someone told me.
Speaker A:So when one partner leaves or wants to leave or has taken another or is cheating, wants to take another lover, that's when they feel the most guilty.
Speaker A:And a family lawyer gave this advice to a friend of mine.
Speaker A:They said, take the deal.
Speaker A:Take the deal.
Speaker A:At this point, the cheating partner, usually.
Speaker A:And it could be the woman who's saying, I don't need as much money, I just want to leave.
Speaker A:And he said, save yourself a lot of money in legal.
Speaker A:Take the deal.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Or if it's a man cheating, he feels guilty, he's gonna offer the wife, I'll give you the house.
Speaker A:I'll give you this.
Speaker A:Because he feels so guilty about what he's done.
Speaker A:They say, take the deal.
Speaker A:When you become the adversary and you go down that road and you don't, because you're so angry, you don't accept this deal.
Speaker A:But if the deal's a good one, a good lawyer will tell you to take it.
Speaker A:If it's a good one and you should take it.
Speaker B:But I also will say to you that from what I've noticed, a lot of times when the.
Speaker B:Especially if the man's.
Speaker B:If it's the man cheating and he's already got a girlfriend and everything, a lot of times they don't come with a good deal.
Speaker B:A lot of times it's icky.
Speaker A:I think you need to.
Speaker A:Well, we can say assess the deal.
Speaker A:Assess the deal.
Speaker A:If it's fair to good, take it.
Speaker A:Because you can.
Speaker A:If you know this person and this person is going to fight you tooth and nail to the very end.
Speaker A:You know, that's really taxing on your.
Speaker B:Depend on how much is at stake, though.
Speaker A:Well, I'm just saying.
Speaker A:You just mentioned a friend who got nothing.
Speaker B:Yeah, but she got nothing because he wasn't even offering nothing.
Speaker B:He didn't want to even pay his own daughter's school fees.
Speaker B:That's how bad this man was.
Speaker A:That happened to a friend of mine too.
Speaker B:Yeah, he didn't even want to pay his own daughter's school fees.
Speaker A:That happened to a friend of mine, too, a very good friend went through this and we would talk a lot about it.
Speaker A:And the one thing I said, if you're going to fight, fight dirty.
Speaker A:If you're going to fight dirty, fight, do it quickly.
Speaker A:Like, you got to make it hurt.
Speaker A:She's wanted to take the middle road.
Speaker A:She wouldn't do one or the other.
Speaker A:I said, if he's going to be a whole lot tougher, and that means, like, you hit him where he's weakest.
Speaker A:That he was tax evasion.
Speaker A:This.
Speaker A:That I said, well, you better just go and hit him with it.
Speaker B:Yeah, but a lot of times, even to Hit him with it.
Speaker B:But she has to know the facts, you see, that's why I say people she knew, she knew.
Speaker B:My friend did not know anything.
Speaker B:She did not know anything, anything.
Speaker B:So even she was.
Speaker B:If she was gonna try, she didn't know where to start, you see, and that's what I mean.
Speaker B:I don't wanna sound cruel or anything, but I think if you're gonna go through a divorce, if you've decided you're gonna divorce someone, male or female, and everything I read research wise said, alluded to this, you've got to do the homework early.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So what happened to your friend who didn't get moved out of the house early?
Speaker B:She moved out and she moved to the countryside with her daughter.
Speaker B:All he was doing was paying the rent for their wherever they were because the court had ordered that when the divorce proceedings started after divorce, all she was awarded was the school fees and he has to pay the rent for one year and then half the rent till the daughter's 18.
Speaker A:Was she working?
Speaker B:She wasn't working, but she had a little company she was running.
Speaker B:She wasn't making that much money.
Speaker B:I mean he's worth at least 200 times more than she is.
Speaker B:The moment the divorce finalized, he bought a big 15 million pound house.
Speaker B:Just two months after the divorce was finalized, he bought a house.
Speaker B:So he had the money.
Speaker B:Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker B:And he had the best lawyers.
Speaker B:And I mean, I hate to say this, I think there was some funky business going on with the judge because they changed the judge at the last minute.
Speaker B:The other judges were always on her side.
Speaker A:Was this in the uk, right?
Speaker A:Here in the uk, we're not privy, but I my belief, and this is the reason that so many, they call it the divorce capital of the world, is because the judges are fair.
Speaker A:I do believe that there is nothing funny with the judges.
Speaker A:I do think that there's a very good and fair legal system.
Speaker B:Well, I think money talks and bullshit walks.
Speaker B:Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Speaker A:Well then there's no point in even having a conversation.
Speaker A:If we say that what's the point in even getting a lawyer?
Speaker A:We have to make that assumption that the courts are fair and that thus you get.
Speaker A:But the lawyers are not all created equal.
Speaker A:And that's very important.
Speaker A:Like I said, if you have to do something to get liquid to get that forensic accountant prior and that might be this is before you even mention splitting up to him or her and then just get liquid and find a good lawyer and a good forensic accountant and find out what you need to have and have absolute proof of it, then start.
Speaker B:Yeah, there are a few rules you have to think.
Speaker B:For example, if the house is not in your name, you may have to march through courts just to stay in the house.
Speaker B:You may have to go through a lot of court proceedings just to manage to stay in the house.
Speaker B:Also, when you're going through divorce, don't put the drama on the stand.
Speaker B:If you're calling him a bastard and he's calling you this and a that doesn't work in front of judges.
Speaker B:So just know that.
Speaker B:And don't go with an attitude thinking you deserve everything because judges also don't like that.
Speaker B:Because you can't go into court thinking I deserve it.
Speaker B:Because some people go with that attitude because the judge is also empathetic.
Speaker B:But if you come in with this foil child syndrome, first of all, that's.
Speaker A:A very important point.
Speaker A:Appearance is everything.
Speaker A:You're taking this independent party who's going, you're assuming you're going to judge one.
Speaker A:You have to assume every single email you send to the person.
Speaker A:So none of this you bastard, you this, you this and sounding crazy and angry and I'm gonna.
Speaker A:Because you have to assume everything you put in writing will be read.
Speaker A:Look at the Jeffrey Epstein emails that are out, okay?
Speaker A:I mean treasure trove of every.
Speaker A:Find out all these people who rightfully if they're engaging in that behavior.
Speaker A:I think the ex president of Harvard thought he was off scot free till these emails came out 10 years later after he assume anything you put in writing, especially when you're writing to your ex, that that will be put in front of a judge.
Speaker A:So when you write that and you're tempted to write something really angry and your blood is boiling, don't do it.
Speaker A:Don't put it in a text, don't put it in an email.
Speaker A:Always be polite and professional.
Speaker A:Assume that it is going to be read in court.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I think also even though I've not been through a divorce, I think even after the divorce you've got to put everything the judge has awarded you, you've got to have some sort of agreement as to how it will be paid out and everything.
Speaker B:So everything is in order and divorce can be very, very messy.
Speaker B:But I've also heard that people now go into these agreements when they get married.
Speaker B:Now apart from a prenuptial of course, which even can be contested.
Speaker A:Post nuptial.
Speaker B:Yeah, people do post nuptials and then people go into these agreements.
Speaker B:Is it called a something living Together agreement, cohabitation agreement, cohabitation agreement, and that's that.
Speaker B:Does that mean, like, that when they go through a divorce, they don't have to settle property and stuff?
Speaker A:So a couple other points to make.
Speaker A:If someone's watching this or listening to this.
Speaker A:If you divorce in the uk, the period not from when you got married, but when you start living together is where the division of assets start.
Speaker A:So that's really important.
Speaker A:From when you started living together, not when you got married, when you started living together, to when you split up, that's when they divide the assets up.
Speaker A:If you want to stop the clock, let's say you're the party with the money and you really feel like contributing more than your share.
Speaker A:If you want to stop the clock, it's from the period, the division of assets stops from the period you legally file for separation.
Speaker A:So even if you're separated and you think, okay, you need to legally file to stop the clock, let's say, you know, you're going to get this huge bonus coming in in a year, or you're going to get this great win for the job.
Speaker A:Legally stop the clock.
Speaker A:The divisions of assets stop from when you legally file for separation.
Speaker A:And even if you're not sure whether you're gonna get back to each other or not, you don't know.
Speaker A:You never know.
Speaker A:File it.
Speaker A:Just file it.
Speaker B:So your advice to them is you should file as soon as possible.
Speaker B:If you're the person with the money.
Speaker A:Well, my advice is if you're the party without the money, don't file.
Speaker A:If you're the party with the money, file.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Because that's why we wanted to talk about it.
Speaker B:Cause it's something people don't talk about.
Speaker B:And we did do an episode on shame because.
Speaker B:And the reason I mentioned shame here, some people feel ashamed when they're going through divorce.
Speaker B:I know there's that thing where you want to fight.
Speaker B:But a lot of women can also feel ashamed sometimes because.
Speaker B:And the shame now doesn't come from the divorce itself.
Speaker B:It comes from the.
Speaker B:The fact that the marriage didn't work out.
Speaker A:Failure.
Speaker A:The failure.
Speaker B:The failure of the relationship.
Speaker B:And some people feel ashamed.
Speaker B:And maybe sometimes you do have to talk to a friend who's more knowledgeable even when you're going through a divorce, because maybe she might advise you to find the right lawyers or.
Speaker B:And some because also there's so much pressure from society out there.
Speaker B:You were the perfect couple.
Speaker B:You were the one that everybody admired.
Speaker B:And all of a sudden you're going through this Divorce.
Speaker B:And your friends are like, how is he?
Speaker B:And you're like, oh, he's fine.
Speaker B:And, you know, there's stuff.
Speaker B:And sometimes I also think that part of it, the emotional part of it, can be draining.
Speaker B:We talked about the financial.
Speaker B:That emotional part where you're going through all this stuff you're not telling the people you should really be telling so maybe they can give you some emotional support.
Speaker A:Or adv is that you're talking against guard railing, which is like, yeah, there's a lot of people like that saying, this is what exactly.
Speaker A:It doesn't have to apply to dating some people.
Speaker A:We all have friends like this who have a very hard time saying, I'm okay, I'm okay, everything's okay.
Speaker A:And in reality, they're not okay.
Speaker A:And applies to a lot of different things.
Speaker A:And yes, here's the big thing in life.
Speaker A:It's okay to say, I'm not okay.
Speaker A:I'm not doing well.
Speaker A:Where are my friends?
Speaker A:Please be a good friend to me.
Speaker A:Now is when I need you.
Speaker A:That's okay to do and say to your family or to your friends, there's no shame in that.
Speaker A:Don't.
Speaker A:You know what I read somewhere?
Speaker A:So, you know, forget feeling ashamed or embarrassed, all these.
Speaker A:It stops us from doing so many positive things or things that are good for us.
Speaker A:I was talking to my friend's mother, and she's in her 80s, and her second marriage had ups and downs.
Speaker A:And I said, why didn't you get a divorce?
Speaker A:She said, I didn't want everyone to be right.
Speaker A:Like, everyone said, it'll never work.
Speaker A:You're gonna divorce.
Speaker A:In the segment, she's like, I just didn't want everyone to be right.
Speaker A:And I thought, that doesn't seem like a really good way to spend decades of your life just so you.
Speaker A:But then she's a different generation as well.
Speaker A:I think as we get older or younger, even the generations go by, we're more shameless.
Speaker A:You know, whether that's good or bad, I don't know.
Speaker A:Something that always sticks in my head.
Speaker A:So I was trying.
Speaker A:I'm trying to get my father to take up yoga.
Speaker A:He's 88, 86.
Speaker A:I said, dad, do you know how many people don't do things because they're afraid of looking stupid or looking silly or looking like this?
Speaker A:I said, you know, they don't learn languages because they're too afraid to speak in a language and not have a good accent or something.
Speaker A:People don't learn.
Speaker A:He doesn't want to do yoga.
Speaker A:I said, so I Made him.
Speaker A:I said, you didn't promise me I'm going to call you a week.
Speaker A:And you better have done this because it's good for you.
Speaker A:You need to move.
Speaker A:You need to.
Speaker A:It's good for your mind.
Speaker A:It's good for your body.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:Don't be afraid of looking silly.
Speaker A:Put on.
Speaker A:He says, what do I wear?
Speaker A:I said, you wear some sweatpants and you put a T shirt on and a sweatshirt over it.
Speaker A:You don't even need shoes for yoga.
Speaker A:And then you can take your sweatshirt off, you get hot.
Speaker A:And I said, and even if you just do the stretching part, you do what you can do.
Speaker A:I said, you'll feel good afterwards.
Speaker A:That I guarantee you.
Speaker A:But this whole thing, because people are afraid, they're ashamed or being embarrassed, and so you do nothing.
Speaker A:Doing nothing is a decision.
Speaker A:Indecision is a decision, and it's not a good one.
Speaker A:You know, there's so many better decisions than indecision.
Speaker A:Indecisions, just standing still.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:You need to make a decision and go with that, wherever that takes you.
Speaker B:And I think another part of getting divorced is also the difficulty when you have children and how you explain it to the children and all that, and the parenting afterwards.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:I think breaking up a family certainly is a huge reason people don't do it.
Speaker A:I also think there's a big fear of loneliness.
Speaker A:You know, you see a huge fear of loneliness.
Speaker A:Let's talk about COVID There were a record amount of divorces after Covid.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And it was because people had to finally actually interact with each other, and they found out they didn't like each other or they didn't want to be happy, or maybe they saw the mortality in life and they said, you know what?
Speaker A:People are dying.
Speaker A:I don't want to spend the remaining years with this partner.
Speaker A:Here's the funny thing.
Speaker A:There was these people who kind of help people on their deathbeds, and they help them through the process of dying.
Speaker A:And they said the common denominator of people biggest, what they're the most proud of and what they most regret.
Speaker A:They said there's common denominators across the board of all people in the interview.
Speaker A:And one of the proudest things they are of is a marriage that worked or a relationship that worked and that was very happy.
Speaker A:And one of the things they were.
Speaker A:Their biggest regret was staying in a relationship that didn't work, that were very unhappy.
Speaker A:So I think that we're not yet at the point where there's so many people live much more selfish lives.
Speaker A:We Want not to be married or not to come.
Speaker A:And we say it's not for me.
Speaker A:And I say, I don't know what our deathbed looking back or summaries are gonna be, but right now, where people do or have long term marriages, again, the biggest regret is staying.
Speaker A:This is across the board with a partner they felt was cheating or didn't appreciate them.
Speaker A:And also one of the most fulfilling things they would say in their life was staying with someone and making it work.
Speaker A:That was a good relationship.
Speaker B:Yeah, I guess it's really difficult.
Speaker B:And I guess some people stay sometimes because of financial dependence.
Speaker B:I think financial dependence is the number one thing that lets people stay, especially women sometimes because women earn a lot less than men even today.
Speaker B:Or some don't work at all if they're housewives.
Speaker A:That's absolutely.
Speaker A:I had one of the mothers at school.
Speaker A:I don't know, everybody talked to me maybe because, I don't know, we sit there where all the children are playing cricket and it takes so long, so we just have to talk.
Speaker A:And so I remember one of the mothers and she confessed that she had not had sexual intimacy with her husband for over 10 years.
Speaker A:And I said, why don't you leave?
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:And she said, because we don't have enough for me to be able to give my children the education, the life, the house, the everything that we want.
Speaker A:It's better to stay together.
Speaker A:I said, okay, that's pragmatic.
Speaker A:And if you're happy enough and you know that there's going to be a whole lot more hardship if you aren't together, then better that you do stay together.
Speaker A:But just analyze it accurately.
Speaker B:I think that problem.
Speaker B:The problem arises because a lot of couples do stay together even when they have issues like that because of finances or whatever, but the issue arises when they don't discuss that arrangement in depth.
Speaker B:Now, if you're both together, knowing very well your marriage's over and you're separated, I think you should also allow each other to probably have other relationships and just know that we're just living together.
Speaker B:The problem becomes they don't.
Speaker B:And sometimes the woman starts cheating or the man starts cheating.
Speaker B:But I would rather we both say it's not working out.
Speaker B:We're staying together because of the money, because of the children.
Speaker A:You want the clarity.
Speaker A:But you know, I think.
Speaker B:But I think they should have clarity because it'll make both parties much happier.
Speaker A:Well, not necessarily.
Speaker A:I don't know if you've been following the Lily Allen divorce with her husband from.
Speaker A:I think he was an Actor in Stranger Things.
Speaker A:And then she wrote the breakup song.
Speaker A:Basically, they were supposed to.
Speaker A:According to the breakup song.
Speaker A:And the only reason they listened to it because someone says it's called Madeline.
Speaker A:So you have to listen to her song Madeline.
Speaker A:And it's about.
Speaker A:They're younger, right.
Speaker A:So having an open relationship.
Speaker A:But they had certain rules that they.
Speaker A:She's singing about this.
Speaker A:That they could.
Speaker A:He could have affair with other women, but not affair.
Speaker A:He could have sexual relations with another woman, but there had to be payment.
Speaker A:There had to be no romance.
Speaker A:You know, they put some.
Speaker A:So were they happy?
Speaker A:No, they broke.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But that was because they were in a marriage.
Speaker B:I'm saying when you're going through the separation stage.
Speaker B:I'm not saying do that in a marriage.
Speaker A:Yeah, okay.
Speaker B:I'm saying if you're both living together and you're separated, you just gave an example of this woman.
Speaker B:They're living together because of the kids.
Speaker B:Because when your husband or wife say, we don't want to be together, we can't get divorced because of whatever reason.
Speaker B:I think at least have the boundaries you both discussed.
Speaker B:Like, you can have a relationship.
Speaker B:I can have a relationship.
Speaker B:We live together.
Speaker B:As long as your girlfriend doesn't come in the house and you're doing it outside the house.
Speaker B:And the.
Speaker B:I think it's a better way because, you know, you're just.
Speaker B:You could.
Speaker B:Because then you can become friends.
Speaker A:I do think that they are friends, by the way.
Speaker A:I do think that they are friendly.
Speaker A:I don't think they have that.
Speaker B:I'm not talking about them.
Speaker B:I'm just saying it's the best way forward.
Speaker B:Because if you're both in a marriage where you know it's over, but you just staying together for.
Speaker B:I've seen it where there's frustration where then one.
Speaker B:One person will always cheat, especially when it's all done.
Speaker A:I see.
Speaker B:So rather than cheat, just have the discussion.
Speaker B:And because for women, I found when the relationships break up and they're going through the divorce stage and they're staying together, for women, most of them just think about the security aspect of it.
Speaker B:As long as the man can say, listen, no matter what happens, you know, we're here, I'm gonna make sure you're taken care of.
Speaker B:I'm gonna make sure you're okay.
Speaker B:Even though she's not into him anymore, and she's like, okay, we're living together.
Speaker B:It's not like he's gonna run off with some other woman and she's that sure.
Speaker B:I think it makes their relationship better.
Speaker B:Because he's gonna cheat anyway.
Speaker A:Look, I don't think it's man or woman.
Speaker A:I think one.
Speaker A:I always used to say this.
Speaker A:If you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, if you're not having sex with your partner, they're having sex somewhere.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:I mean, it just.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:We're not meant to be.
Speaker B:But I'm just talking about when they're going through.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker B:Everything I'm saying is not about when they're in a relationship.
Speaker B:It's about when it's already over.
Speaker B:You've both decided it's over.
Speaker B:There's no point being celibate for each other if you're both not.
Speaker B:You've decided it's over.
Speaker B:You're just living together for the kids or for the money or for whatever reason.
Speaker B:You might as well sit down and drop an agreement of how you're gonna live together.
Speaker A:I don't think people do that.
Speaker B:They should, because that will make the relationship work better.
Speaker B:Because what ends up happening is they're both not having sex with each other.
Speaker B:He's cheating or she's cheating.
Speaker B:One finds out, she goes crazy, they blow up, and they still end up splitting in the end.
Speaker A:I'm gonna disagree with you on that.
Speaker A:I think sometimes it's better.
Speaker A:What you don't if you want to.
Speaker B:They always know in the end.
Speaker B:I've met women who know their husband's cheating.
Speaker A:That's fine.
Speaker A:A lot of them want to look the other way.
Speaker A:And the husband or whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah, but they're frustrated in the meantime.
Speaker B:They're angry all the time.
Speaker B:They have arguments all the time.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker B:So where does that take you?
Speaker A:Okay, so I have a friend and didn't really end up that well.
Speaker A:She came to me and she said, I think my husband is having an affair.
Speaker A:What should I do?
Speaker A:And I said, well, you've got a few options and they're not.
Speaker A:Before you confront him, you've got to have this conversation with yourself.
Speaker A:I said, one, he could say, yes, you're right, and I love her and I want a divorce.
Speaker A:Think about that before you confront him, because that could be an opportunity.
Speaker A:Two, he could say, I am not, and just lie to you and continue on.
Speaker A:Or three, and this rarely ever happens, he says, I'll never do it again.
Speaker A:Okay, so do you want to.
Speaker A:The first question is, do you want to confront him or not?
Speaker A:Are you prepared to leave or not if you don't want to have?
Speaker A:I said, you got to do It French style.
Speaker A:If you don't really don't want to leave, you have your own affair.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I said you have to.
Speaker A:If you don't want to leave, if you really don't want to leave and you want to stay, don't confront.
Speaker A:Go see a lawyer, because he could leave you, and then you need to be prepared.
Speaker A:That's the scenario.
Speaker A:If you think, I can't live like this.
Speaker A:I can't take this misery, I definitely want a divorce.
Speaker A:Then confront him.
Speaker A:But understand what may happen.
Speaker A:You gotta think about what may happen in the end.
Speaker A:She did confront him.
Speaker A:They did divorce.
Speaker A:It was extremely messy.
Speaker A:Extremely messy.
Speaker A:Because it rarely is the first time.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:He was a serial cheater.
Speaker A:And it was extremely.
Speaker A:That's all I say.
Speaker A:Messy for the children.
Speaker A:That the children will be.
Speaker A:Oh, gosh, I don't know how this will affect them when they're adults.
Speaker A:Not well, obviously.
Speaker A:Just say that people did not behave honorably.
Speaker A:It should have been quick.
Speaker A:It's protracted, it was long, it was expensive.
Speaker A:Only the lawyers made money.
Speaker A:They went through all their assets just in this horrific fight.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I just think, you know, with divorces, it just depends.
Speaker B:And it's a really messy situation.
Speaker B:And I might sit here because I've never been through a divorce and say to you, like, oh, just talk to him, or talk to her and make an agreement.
Speaker B:But I know in the moment emotions are whirled up and everyone's, like, pissed off because it's the other person's fault.
Speaker B:And people sometimes only get to that point of engagement years after the divorce, after it's all been, like, crazy and murky.
Speaker B:So I'm not one to tell you what to do or what way to take it, because I've never been divorced.
Speaker B:But I think a lot of it has to do with communication.
Speaker B:But it has to do with the willingness of both partners to communicate.
Speaker B:And because when you love someone, breaking up with them can be really, really hard.
Speaker B:And I understand that, you know, they may leave you.
Speaker A:I think that the takeaway from.
Speaker A:Again, what I said.
Speaker A:If you are thinking about divorcing, you should consult with five different lawyers.
Speaker A:Ask for their strategy, what they think you should do.
Speaker A:Get a breakdown.
Speaker A:Understand where you are.
Speaker A:Even if you think he's cheating, you should think about whether you should confront or not confront.
Speaker A:You should probably still see a lawyer and understand what your rights are.
Speaker A:What are the likelihood of different situations that are gonna happen to you, and then decide which route you wanna do.
Speaker A:And if you are separated, okay, you're Separated.
Speaker A:If you've left and you're planning on divorcing.
Speaker A:If you are the one with the assets, file for a legal separation.
Speaker B:You should file for a legal separation.
Speaker A:Early if you want.
Speaker A:Don't file if you're the one with.
Speaker A:With more to gain from the longer that you are married.
Speaker B:Yeah, but the first thing is divorce shouldn't even be an option.
Speaker B:You shouldn't get into it if you think it's gonna end up in divorce.
Speaker B:But I think a lot of times we all don't know it's gonna end up in divorce.
Speaker B:We just go in.
Speaker B:It's such a tricky situate subject.
Speaker A:You know, it could happen to you.
Speaker A:You don't know.
Speaker A:There's so many stories of people who are blindsided by their partner coming home one day and saying they want to leave.
Speaker A:They're not happy.
Speaker A:It could be anything.
Speaker A:People change so many things.
Speaker A:The idea that you're going to have one person in your entire life grow in tandem together and negotiate all these things together is incredibly rare and hard.
Speaker A:I think that most.
Speaker A:That's why you get a 50% divorce rate.
Speaker A:And I think that if not higher, and that's with people not getting married as much.
Speaker A:So with that, I think that's a wrap on this.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that's a wrap for divorce.
Speaker B:Always remember, you've got to think hard.
Speaker B:My final suggestions if you're going to divorce is like Maddie said, do the homework first, find a good lawyer next, and try and keep it civil.
Speaker B:Try and keep it.
Speaker A:Especially if there's children.
Speaker B:Yeah, especially if there's children.
Speaker B:Try and keep it civil.
Speaker B:And always remember that there's life after divorce.
Speaker B:You don't.
Speaker B:Especially in today's world where hopefully we're all going to be living till 100 and 150.
Speaker B:So you'll be able to have three or four marriages before or long term fulfilling relationships.
Speaker B:But until next time, just remember to keep it off the record.
